Resooney:Yernish

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Foirm eile is ea an t-ainm 'Yernish' ar 'Oirish' is dócha!

Yernish is the Manx for An Ghaeilge. Oirish must be a slang word, and, as it is in English, has NO place in the Manx language wikipedia. Also, as this is the Manx language wikipedia please use only Yn Ghaelg or English - no other language please. We have contributors here from locations other than the British Isles who do not know how to read or understand Irish. MacTire02 10:54, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ennym ny chengaghyn Ind-OarpaghEdit

Un phoynt fo'n ennym Indo-European. Rere mannin.info she Ind-Europagh yn ennym kiart. Agh, share lhiam yn ennym Ind-Oarpagh. Rere Coonseil ny Gaelgey she yn Oarpey yn ennym ta currit er Europe. Smooinaghtyn?? --MacTire02 21:17, 8 Jerrey Souree 2008 (UTC)

Freggyrt anmagh, agh er lhaim dy nodmayd screeu "Ind-Oarpagh" gyn boirey. Ta "Oarpagh" ry-akin ayns ymmodee focklyn. -- Shimmin Beg 21:39, 22 Jerrey Geuree 2012 (UTC)

Ennym ny chengaghynEdit

"Cibé rud a chreideann an mhuinntir a labhrann ar "Gaeilge agus Gàidhlig", agus a bíos in amannaí ag deánamh "aistriúcháin" eadarthu, níor bh'é meon na nGael ariamh gur teangthacha difriúla iad an Ghaedhilg in Éirinn agus in Albain. Teangaidh amháin a d'ainmnigheadh siad-san. "Gaoluinn" a bheireadh an Muimhneach uirthi, agus labhaireadh sé ar "Ghaoluinn na hAlban". "Gàidhlig" a bheireadh an t-Albanach uirthi agus labhaireadh sé ar "Ghàidhlig Éireannach"". "Sin an dearcadh céanna atá i bhFoclóir Uí Dhónaill: "Gaeilge na hAlban" atá aige. Agus "Gaeilge Mhanann," le cois "An Mhanainnís". Níl a leithéid de fhocal agus "Gàidhlig" i nGaedhilg na hÉireann, ná gnaithe leis. Níl gnaithe le níos mó ná leagan amháin de ainm na teangtha i bpíosa scríbhneoreachta ar bith nach bhfuil dá scríobhadh d'aonturas i meascán de chanamhaintí. Más mór ár meas ar Ó Dónaill de ghnáthach, is iongantach an leisc atá orainn géilleadh dó ins an phoinnte seo." ( Tag: http://web.archive.org/web/20040818201858/www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/cruinneas/gaedhilg.htm)

See MacTire's comment above: please restrict yourself to Manx or English on this wiki. Not all contributors (including me) can understand much or any Irish. At the very least, as this seems to be a citation, please explain in Manx or English what it is supposed to say and why you have added it. -- Shimmin Beg 18:14, 7 Mee Houney 2009 (UTC)
==Ennym ny chengaghyn==

"Cibé rud a chreideann an mhuinntir a labhrann ar "Gaeilge agus Gàidhlig", agus a bíos in amannaí ag deánamh "aistriúcháin" eadarthu, níor bh'é meon na nGael ariamh gur teangthacha difriúla iad an Ghaedhilg in Éirinn agus in Albain. Whatever the beliefs of the people that speak of "Gaeilge and Gàidhlig" , and who occassionaly make "translations" between them, it was not ever the belief of the Gael that Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic are different languages.

Teangaidh amháin a d'ainmnigheadh siad-san. They would have called the language but one name. "Gaoluinn" a bheireadh an Muimhneach uirthi, agus labhaireadh sé ar "Ghaoluinn na hAlban". The Munster person would call the language "Gaoluinn", and would speak of "Ghaoluinn na hAlban".

"Gàidhlig" a bheireadh an t-Albanach uirthi agus labhaireadh sé ar "Ghàidhlig Éireannach"". The Scottish person would call the language "Gàidhlig", and would speak of "Ghàidhlig Éireannach".

"Sin an dearcadh céanna atá i bhFoclóir Uí Dhónaill: "Gaeilge na hAlban" atá aige. That is the same view that is found in Foclóir Uí Dhónaill: he uses "Gaeilge na hAlban".

Agus "Gaeilge Mhanann," le cois "An Mhanainnís". And "Gaeilge Mhanann", alongside "An Mhanainnís".

Níl a leithéid de fhocal agus "Gàidhlig" i nGaedhilg na hÉireann, ná gnaithe leis. There is no such word as "Gàidhlig" in Irish Gaelic, or use for such.

Níl gnaithe le níos mó ná leagan amháin de ainm na teangtha i bpíosa scríbhneoreachta ar bith nach bhfuil dá scríobhadh d'aonturas i meascán de chanamhaintí. There is no use for more than one form of name for the language in any writing that is not deliberately intended to be in a plurality of dialects.

Más mór ár meas ar Ó Dónaill de ghnáthach, is iongantach an leisc atá orainn géilleadh dó ins an phoinnte seo." Given our usually great respect for Ó Dónaill, great is our excuse for agreeing with him in this matter.( Tag: Ref:http://web.archive.org/web/20040818201858/www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/~oduibhin/cruinneas/gaedhilg.htm)Eog2016 00:05, 8 Mee Houney 2009 (UTC)

It can and has been said, as per the tag above by Eog2016, that the Irish, Scots and Manx Gaelic languages are the one and same language that differ from each other due to political considerations. Indeed, the Scots Gaelic language of Aran is closer to the Gaelic of Antrim than to the Gaelic of the Hebrides. However, while Scots Gaelic and Irish may be said to be very close together grammatically and orthographically, the language of the Isle of Man has altered so radically as to render it quite different from the other two (compare Swedish to Norwegian and Danish - the same could and has been said about these three languages, calling them Scandinavian. Danish and Norwegian orthography remains quite close to this day, while Swedish has altered significantly. However, the majority refer to them by their geopolitically correct names). The Manx language has lost most of the verbal constructions found in Irish and Scots Gaelic (in Manx there is a past tense, albeit a vanishing one - in Manx there is a tendency to use the past tense of the verb "to do", ren, followed by the infinitive of the verb in question, there is only one present tense in Manx of the verb "to be", ta, while the future tense is for the most part constructed by the future tense of the verb "to be", nee followed by the infinitive of the verb in question). In Manx there is a difference, just like in the other Gaelic languages between the masculine and feminine of nouns, but this is dying out with a tendency to treat all nouns as masculine. This is apparent in the system of initial consonontal mutation. Where Manx differs from the other two is in respect to the genitive case. This case is in the process of dying out in Manx, even if some including myself have a preference for trying to maintain it as best we can. Currently, according to many in the movement there is no longer a genitive case. We can see this if we look at the construction in English of "Bundesrepublik Deutschland". In English this is rendered as the Federal Republic of Germany. In Irish this is rendered as Poblacht Chonastach na Gearmáine, in Scots Gaelic it is rendered as Poblachd Chaidreachail na Gearmailt, but in Manx it is rendered as Pobblaght Chonastagh y Ghermaan according to CnyG, which would be spelt as Poblacht Chonastach a' Ghearmáin if an Irish Gaelic orthography was applied. This shows how there is no longer a differentiation between masculine and feminine. The spelling of Manx, while imposed by a foreigner, enjoys large popularity amongst speakers of Manx so is hardly likely to change. Even the vocabulary of the language can be quite different to the other Gaelic languages, with large amounts of borrowings from Norse, French and English not seen in the other Gaelic languages. Compare vondeish meaning profit, benefit etc. from advantage in French, waiteil from wait in English meaning attendance, and vaal from vǫll in Norse meaning area, field, ground etc. (compare Tinvaal). In short, Manx has a differing vocabulary (whether it is different words, alternative meanings, or just simply different pronunciations), a different grammatical structure, a different verbal structure, a radically different orthography, as well as a different history and culture to the other Gaelic languages. While there is much to share, there is also a lot of differences, more so than exists between Danish and Norwegian. In fact probably more so than exists between Russian and Ukrainian! --MacTire02 00:33, 8 Mee Houney 2009 (UTC)
We can't use orthography as a measure of affinity. The standard written forms of all the gaelic languages emerged so late (in the case of Manx in the 18th century) that it has no bearing. But, of course, they are all distinct languages by any sensible measure. Mcewan 10:15, 16 Mee ny Nollick 2010 (UTC)
As an aside to personal opinions, the idea behind Wikipedia is to create an online encyclopaedia anyone can edit. But the clue is in the word encyclopaedia. It is meant to be representative of current usage. We may come to a point at some time in the future where all three Gaelic languages are treated as one and the same language but with dialectal differences. For now though, this is not the case. So while the majority of people, be they Manx, Irish, Scottish, or whatever, agree on the fact that the three are different languages, and while there are differing terms coined for each of the languages in their own vernaculars, then this is what should be represented. Wikipedia is about providing information, not conjecture, opinion, revisionism etc. T'eh shen jerrey lesh my resoonaght mychione enmyn er ny chengaghyn Gaelgagh. Ta mee hene credjal dy vel jarroo-raa yn Unnaneys Oarpagh ny yarroo-raa share da ny Gaeil - t'eh shen Unnaneaght ayns Neuchaslid. Tree chengaghyn, tree cultooryn, tree shennaghyssyn, tree cheeraghyn, agh un ghoo. Myrane lesh cullee Vannin, y tree cassyn! --MacTire02 00:48, 8 Mee Houney 2009 (UTC)

InnisfreeEdit

Dia duit !

Could anybody explain the etymology of "Innisfree" ? I thought innis was like Breton enez (isle), but now I am not sure, for isle is oilean in gaelic. And what about free ?

Maith agat !

--PUNKAHARJU44 08:25, 22 Jerrey Geuree 2012 (UTC) (from Wikipedia-fr)

Suite

In the Pronouncing gaelic-english dictionary, Gairm Publications, Glasgow, 1973, p. 152, innis means : choice pasture.

--PUNKAHARJU44 12:25, 22 Jerrey Geuree 2012 (UTC)

Well, to begin with, you're on the wrong wiki... this is the Manx wiki, not Scottish Gaelic. They're probably better placed to answer etymological questions about their own language. On the plus side we're closely related so I can make an educated guess. There are at least three words for isle or island in Gaelic; in Manx these are written ellan (your oilean), insh and ynnys. I'm confident that the last one corresponds to your innis, and is an equivalent of Welsh ynys, the Breton and so on. What free means I've no idea. -- Shimmin Beg 21:35, 22 Jerrey Geuree 2012 (UTC)
The placename Innisfree is an island in Lough Gill, County Sligo. It is derived from the Irish Gaelic words Inis Fraoigh which means "Island of Heather" (compare Manx Innys Freoaie) - derived from the words Inis, "island" and fraoch, "heather". There are two words in the Gaelic languages which mean "island":
  • the original Gaelic Inis and its derivatives in Irish and Scots Gaelic genitive inse and the Manx innys, insh (both a genitive of innys and a nominative in its own right) and inshey (genitive of both innys and insh).
  • The Gaelic words oileán (Irish), eilean (Scottish) and ellan are all derived from the Old Norse øy prefixed to the Gaelic diminutives -eán, -ean, -an. The l was an infix but I'm not sure how it entered the language.
The word inis is cognate with Welsh ynys, Breton enez, and even more distantly with French île, English isle (which later gave us island). Hope that helps. Mac Tíre Cowag 19:25, 23 Jerrey Geuree 2012 (UTC)
Oops! For some reason the spelling had me convinced it was SG. Gow my leshtal. -- Shimmin Beg 18:17, 24 Jerrey Geuree 2012 (UTC)
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